Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Welcome to the Underrepresented in Tech podcast, where we talk about issues in underrepresentation and have difficult conversations.
Underrepresented in Tech is a free database with the goal of helping people find new opportunities in WordPress and tech.
Hello, Samah.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Hello, Michelle.
[00:00:25] Speaker A: We should do that when we see each other in other places, too. Like, we should just like, I'll see you across the floor at WordCamp US. And I'll be like, hello.
You know, people look at me like, what the hell
[00:00:37] Speaker B: should. By the way, it should be the new way to say hello to everyone. You know, I think so.
[00:00:42] Speaker A: It's so pretty, right? And even if you don't sing well, it just. It makes you smile. So there. If anybody wants me to. To address them that way at WordCamp us, just let me know in advance. I promise I will.
I will sing to you.
So, a couple of years ago, I can't remember if it was you and me or Ali and me, or maybe we did it twice, but we talked about the digital divide and how access to technology divides a lot of different ways, but primarily socioeconomically. Right. As far as that goes.
And now AI. I think this is our first AI talk. We're really behind the scenes, behind the times on that.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Right.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: AI is doing something very similar, actually. AI has. There's a lot of ethics around how and when to use AI, and what I wanted to talk about today.
And if you think I'm just springing this on her now, I didn't. I actually sent her a lot of information in advance. We do that.
But what I want to talk about today is how AI has its own divide and not even get into the ethics so much because there are all these ethics around whether it uses, you know, whether it's creating more waste and e-waste and everything than before, etc. There's plenty of research on that. But what I want to talk about, because we did talk about AI last week, right? Or two weeks ago, and I want to talk about it again today, a little bit more about the digital divide that exists within there.
It's about digital equity. I heard that word, and I saw that word today, and I. That phrase. And I was like, that is what it is. It's about equity. And that's one of the things we talk about.
There's less.
I'm less worried about equality and more worried about equity. Right. So I'll. I'll give an example. My mother is in her late 70s, and she says she hates AI.
All based on the fact that, for a while, Facebook was giving you prompts in the box that you could write your status in. Right. And she didn't want to talk about those things, and it shouldn't tell her to talk about those things. And I said, it's not telling you to. It's saying, hey, if you don't have any ideas, you could write about this. And she was like, " Oh.
So I did a little bit of research on top of what I sent you today and discovered that. And this is an American study, so it won't apply equally around the world, but about 99% of Americans interact with AI every single day without even knowing it.
And I thought that was interesting. Right? So. But the digital divide doesn't come with the fact that maybe you're shopping on Amazon, and it's using an algorithm, and it doesn't come from the fact that you're using these. It comes from the fact that there's an age gap, there's an access gap, which includes money and includes technology itself, like a computer, and those kinds of things.
There's a lack of education around AI for many people.
It tends to be male-centric, and it tends to be white-centric because those are the people who have built things. And that's what technology has remained very male-centric, as we know. Yes, there are many more women joining, et cetera, but throughout history, it's been very male-dominated. And so everything that's been created is created by the creator who makes something. And so it's out of their mindset. So it's very white-centric, it's very male-centric. And I think that that's problematic. I think that the article we read two weeks ago from Ricky talked about that a little bit, but I think that. And it talked about it, specifically talked about AI and how it.
I forgot. Oh, it's not always good for accessibility.
But we're talking now about access to using it as a tool. And so yeah, I wanted to hear what your thoughts were.
[00:04:41] Speaker B: I think it is a really essential skill to learn AI because technology alone is not enough. For example, if you give a Formula One, maybe it's a bad example. Imagine giving everyone a Formula One. Some people know how to drive it, some people, they don't know how to drive it. And I believe it's the same for AI. Also, the impact of education, or, to be honest, there are two different realities for AI. Like it's not only between countries, but also within the same countries, people know how to use it, and they can benefit by saving 10 minutes of their time, and some other people use it and make millions of dollars in value. People use it for research businesses, people use it for daily, and of course, when you ask ChatGPT questions, whatever you using the AI tools, also the multiple AI tools that we have now, and how do you use them like how to use chargeability, how to use cloud, how to choose like Gemini, and all of them it's different resources, different things.
It's really impressive to see that in some places around the world, the AI tools don't work. For example, in Congo, where I am, the cloud doesn't work. So I have to put myself the put myself in BB Express, which is a VBN Express. We're not doing promotion for anyone, and then I can access it. While ChatGPT is working perfectly for me here, Gemini also works perfectly for me here.
The thing is also with AI tools, how we can use them, and also the senior citizen, to be honest, like the people who need to use them now, also the young generation, a little bit worried, to be honest, about the education. And I will confess that I start using AI more and more in my daily like I'm busy, I want to do something. I just turn on the audio, and I tell Chad GPT some stuff, and then he can write an email for me or write a proposal. I spent five minutes on them, and I noticed that my spelling is becoming really bad. Oops, I have that I started checking, like okay, fix it for me. And that's sometimes you're thinking with, of course, we're using it to save time for us, so we can do more work, so we can be faster, because both of us live in an industry where fast is the rhythm that we need to do things now or even yesterday. But also, a lot of places around the world are starting to use it, as I said earlier, people are using it to make money, and people are using it to cut down the time of working and the education on how to use the AI tools, or how to teach people who don't have access to it. Yes, there's a YouTuber, yes, there's a couple of even let's be honest, some platforms you cannot access everywhere around the world. But still, my husband is going to kill me now. I also noticed that the age is only 10 years difference. But when I say how I'm using Chat GPT or how I'm using something, you look at me like, " Wow, you're so cool. And those things. Well, it's so funny. Like, I know he's even more educated, like he has more degrees than I. He speaks more languages than me. He's higher in his career than me. But it's still good for him sometimes to show him how to create a quick presentation instead of spending one and a half hours just repeating the data, and then he can create it for you. He was so amazed by it. So the gap, the divide, it's there. Of course, it worries me again, like sometimes, of course. Maybe hopefully, we'll talk about it. Does the AI also tell us the right information or give us the right information, and also, when we share something, the privacy, that's something different. We should talk about it one day for sure.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: We'll talk about that later.
I I have a website I'm building now for a local community and I asked Chat GPT to scrape all of the content from the public side of the website into separate documents for me so that I could load them into the shared drive I have with this company and then they could double check and make sure there was no changes there. Because what I'm going to do is I'm going to lift that text back up to put it in the new website.
It only pulled the title, the first paragraph, and the footer, and left out all the rest of the content.
Like, I didn't care about photos. I just meant the text right. And it still didn't do it right. So I still had to go through and do it myself. And I thought I didn't know how to tell it any differently. So clearly, I'm not like that great at it, or it's just not that great at it. So I don't know.
[00:09:34] Speaker B: I think AI tools are not that great. You still need input. I remember someone asked me a question in WordCamp Asia about Yoast, about creating content. Because now everything is AI creating content. I still believe we are human. We should write something.
How much the AI tool is really good in writing?
I think there's a huge difference when you read something a human being wrote or an AI acting like a human being writing it.
Yeah, sometimes I have the same, you go back and forward and drive me crazier than I do it by myself because I feel like I'm crazy? Why don't you understand me? And once I said I told ch I'm upset with you today, you're not getting me, so of course it can happen.
And also, like I don't know, I think we talked about it, you and I, before, about AI replacing jobs, which is going to remove 90 million jobs and create 140 million jobs. I think it's I don't believe it's going to replace jobs. The only thing is, maybe people who use it more effectively will outperform those who do not use it. Perfect like in the right way but still the how AI being introduced and I hope now because you know the kids when we were at school I start learning about computer when I was 12 now the kids since 4 years old they know how to navigate the tablet and they start learning to learn it in early age Everyone should have access on this planet for the AI tool When I had the interesting conversation and someone said like oh maybe they can use it for evil purposes. Well a human being when we discover the fire we use it to heat to cook food and other people use it to harm each other There were always people find it to do things But I believe everyone should have access to the AI tools every whatever you are and cloud give access to Congo I'm really struggling here and just also make the the machine is learning every day. I don't think we're gonna be like I don't know if you remember the Will Smith movie, Sony, that the robots will think for themselves and make against us. No, I think we are still way ahead, that it's gonna be in that level or ever ever gonna be that level. But I love it. It makes my life easy. Yeah, I would be honest: I invested a lot of time learning how to get the best from those tools, but I've also noticed I'm sometimes becoming a bit lazy. I can reply to the email instead of asking ChatGPT to write me a friendly reply.
[00:12:18] Speaker A: I. I don't. It's probably because of my age. You know I'm 57 I don't use it as much as I should and to be honest I don't understand how to do a lot of things with it and so I'm going to find a class online take a class online and figure it out because most things I've been able to figure out on my own but I think I need a little help on this one and I'm not afraid to say it might be because of my age. Right, so I was not a digital native. I grew up my we didn't have computers in school at all, as they did. I was the first person in my college to have a computer, and it was an old computer. There was no network; it was just, you know, basically it was a very glorified word processor with pin-fed paper that took forever to print a page. Right.
That was my introduction to it all and then you know, I had a BlackBerry and a Palm Pilot before we had phones. Yeah. So all of that is in my past, but at a very late age, and most people acquire those things, and we know that a young mind is more pliant than an older mind.
And even though I'm young at heart, my brain is sold, and so it takes a little bit longer to learn these things, you know, and to. I want to learn them. To be very honest with you. Right. Because it's like I. I already know how to do my job. Well, you do what you don't because you're going to be left in the dust if you don't learn some of this AI stuff. And my guess is I haven't been looking for a job, so I haven't really noticed. I. But my guess is that there are a lot of jobs now that require you to have an understanding of how to use AI, or that you're not only an understanding but proficient in it. Right. So I need to learn some more things before I think about whether or not I want to continue to work for myself or find another job.
[00:13:59] Speaker B: The thing I agree with and I'm really proud of you, but also me the how I can say at the beginning I was against it. Like. Like, we should be more creative. Of course, still human beings, we should be more creative. Because I think working in what I'm doing now in marketing, sometimes you have creative ideas. I don't think even Chad GPT will even think. Maybe he will give you some hints or ideas, and then plop. There's an idea in your head.
It starts to be a must. Like, because I think everybody now in any work, not marketing, not everyone wants to do things faster. Everyone needs to make sure that the information in the document you give for the presentation, whether a slide or a project proposal. For example, my husband and I want to go on vacation. Usually, we used to get you know this, these books about the city, where to go, and a map, and my husband likes to hold the map. We're. We're 200 years old. I know we hate Google Maps, even, and we spent like one month, one month and a half. The other day, he made me a 25-page presentation about the country, what I need to do, what I need, where to go, and where the best road prices are. And I was like, " Wow, that's yeah, that's crazy. But it also takes the fun out of it. Like you spent one month searching, and I want to do this and that, while it's like two minutes. Give you everything you need.
[00:15:28] Speaker A: So yeah, no, it's true. Excuse me, I have a frog in my throat. It's true. I think just like any tool, it has its benefits, but it also has its costs. Right. And it has. And so there are pros and cons to using different tools, no matter what they are.
I think what needs to happen, in my opinion, is that we need to educate it better, more broadly. So it isn't as centric to let's say America or you know, first world countries, which I hate that term, but you know what I mean?
And I think developing nations are probably struggling a little bit more to access technology for sure.
I don't know what we call ourselves, if we're, if those, if we call other developed, if they developed nations. I don't know. We're not that developed either. I guess
[00:16:20] Speaker B: Now they're in the new South Globe and North Globe countries.
[00:16:25] Speaker A: Yeah, I've never heard that before.
Very, very interesting. But I made it.
[00:16:32] Speaker B: You.
[00:16:33] Speaker A: Let's see. I use Canva to make a video of all the photos that I took on my vacation, but I wanted to put it on YouTube so that I could share the link with other people who might want to see.
And I knew that if I used music that was like New York State of Mind or Weekend in New England or all those things, I'd be breaking copyrights.
So I opened up an account with Suno, and I created music to go behind it all.
And I realized that that means I have contributed a little bit to the e-waste that goes with using AI, but it also helped me do something I needed to accomplish. And so I think we just need to be. Number one, it needs to be more equitable across the globe, and it needs to represent more people. Number two, it needs to be more equitable in access across the globe for sure.
And number three, when you do have it, and you understand how to use it, you need to use it responsibly so that we are mindful of the carbon footprint of what we're using online.
Because my lights are taking up energy, my monitor's taking up energy, the computer's taking up energy, all of these things are running. I have, you should see the electric situation I have over here for all my cords, including my espresso machine, my refrigerator, my, you know, all of the things that are in my office here. And so I just have to try to be a little more digital-minded and ecosystem-minded so that I'm not just using it for frivolity, which I admit I have done in the past as well. I had to write my bio once, you know, that kind of thing. And then I edited it. But. But yeah, it's just, I don't know, I think, I think it's going to be an interesting thing to watch over the next however many years.
Eventually, it's going to become like part of the past of what, hey, remember when we did that? Like, like, I don't remember what Facebook looked like when they first launched it, but I remember that when it changed, people were up in arms over it. But now nobody can remember what it was like before. So things grow, things change, they get better, they get sun. Sundowned or whatever you call it, sunlit, so that those things are eventually going away.
And, I think AI is probably going to be here to stay, and it's probably going to become an even bigger part of our world.
But, but using it all the time. We use it all the time. I typed a question into Google, and Google used AI to research the answer for me. You know, that's how the.
I didn't go to ChatGPT, but I still used AI and AI resources to be able to answer those questions and help me research.
So yeah, it's very interesting. Very, very interesting. So if you're using AI out there, huh?
I was saying.
[00:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah. To add something also, the government should invest in digital infrastructure, Internet access, university should teach should teach AI alongside traditional digital skills. Companies just train employees on it. The. I think the goal should not be simply to build smarter AI, but to enable more people to use AI effectively. Because now all the companies need to have AI, the question is how to use it effectively and teach everyone about it.
[00:19:52] Speaker A: I also think.
[00:19:53] Speaker B: Oh yeah, I think, I think these
[00:19:55] Speaker A: big data centers that they've built that are, you know, polluting water and air quality. If you're going to build something like that, I think the government should require you to build the facility to balance that with a zero carbon footprint or close to zero, you know, so that the water that you are polluting, you have to treat it before it can be reused or disposed of. The air has to be cycled through something else. You have to take care of what you're ruining with when you create things like this, at least. And I think about, I mean, to take this to the nth degree, I also think about, like, landfills and how much goes into a landfill. You know, how many laptops have I had in my lifetime? Where are they now? They're in landfills probably, you know, because I handed them off to other people or they died and.
Yeah, anyway. Well, if you're using AI, we want to hear how you're using it.
Let us know. You can DM us, you can, whatever. You know how to get in touch with us. We have everything on our website. All the stuff.
But we want to know how you're using it and what your thoughts are. Do you think we've completely missed the mark? Have we not gone far enough? Give us some feedback. We'd love to hear it. What about you, Sama? Any final thoughts for me?
[00:21:02] Speaker B: There's one. Something. It's. I'm not going to say it. It's AI saying it. The big, the biggest risk isn't the artifact. Artificial intelligence becomes smarter than humans. The biggest risk is that only a small part of humanity gets the opportunity to become smarter with a AI. Oh, that's something. Nice. Even AI itself stated. Yeah.
[00:21:24] Speaker A: And that'll be the transcript. So now it exists elsewhere too.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: Yeah, very good.
[00:21:30] Speaker A: Well, if you have other. Also, if you're listening and you have other ideas of things that we can talk about in the future, you know, we. We're pretty good at coming up with stuff, but every once in a while, there's a week we're like, what are we going to talk about this week? So, you know, send us your ideas. We'd love to hear about them. So.
All right, see y' all next week.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: See you. Bye.
[00:21:51] Speaker A: If you're interested in using our database, joining us as a guest for an episode, or just want to say Hi, go to underrepresentedintech.com. See you next week.
